Thanks for the info, Eric.

So what's to stop us from getting a permit for the SW ridge at Gates Pass?

Of course, I won't endanger your A mtn site by flying this potential site without a permit. I'm just wondering what needs to be done to apply for a permit. This site's prominence is twice that of A mtn, and I'm certain a decent LZ can be found without using Old Tucson Studios (at least for paragliders). I'm sure an arrangement can be made like at SM where we're restricted to just a couple launch and landing zones, all inside the park and not private property.

Even if we don't launch off of the road, baggers can do a mild hike on mostly already-established wildlife trails to a couple of launches and have landings on established hiking trails which wouldn't require clearing any vegetation. This might not be a great site for the HG pilots, but I really feel it would be worth it to apply for a permit at least for the PG pilots!

Eric wrote:I have flown both the areas you spoke of. Gates pass area has a very small launch area even for a Hg- an open area between the bushes about 4 to one out to an LZ. There are several areas in the Mt range where ACFT entering the Tucson valley pass low over the peaks. I had a near miss in the 80`s with a A7D Corsair II and his wingman one above one below is not a great spot to be in! The best launch area is at the end of Trails end road. Tony Barton and I gave up flying there due to restricted access to launch and landing and the aircraft over head and lack of close LZ`s.The last time I flew there I soared and landed at Old Tucson in the back lot- The set for EL Corral . They called the Sheriff and he came out and told me don`t come back! or he would press trespass charges!
Be Advised
Things have changed and now we have a permitt to fly in Tucson Mt Park- A Mt!
Tucson Mt Park is just that a Park ,there are many things you can not do there- flying is one of them. If you fly there you need a permitt. Even with no association with the local club you will endanger our continued use of Tuscon Mt Park for our permitted site A mt.

SAHGA Flight Director

Eric Smith

Eric, can you help us understand the process for pursuing this?
Perhaps we increase our presence in Tucson Mountain Park by adding this new site, ensuring continued access to the existing site on A Mountain.

Yes, please let us know what we can do to pursue this. I'm somewhat restricted in my efforts because I live in Chandler, but I'll do all I can! AZ has very few SW sites, and SW is a pretty dominant wind direction in the early afternoon. This could be a very key site! There's no ceiling there. If we just get through a little red tape and make our presence known to the GA guys at Ryan this site could at worst be a much quicker and easier alternative for PG pilots to keep current, and at best even be a decent ridge soaring or mild XC site!

This area in the Tucson mts is part of Saguaro National Park.
PRIMARY ISSUES - HEAVY UNPREDICTABLE AIR TRAFFIC- were talking young jet jockeys making low runs thru the Mt`s. in uncontrolled air space.
No access to the terrain near the base since this is a National Park with protected Saguaro`s and other species.
No launch area with out major terrain changes.
On the plus side there are other recreational activities that happen in the Park, Mt biking, Horseback riding.
This discssing needs to be brought up at a regular meeting.

I'll have to go ahead and put out my input here because I live in Chandler and can't bring it up at a meeting. John, do you think you could take the reins on this one and bring it up in person? I'll do as much research as I can. In fact, I'll be in Tucson on Saturday and maybe early next week and will check out possible launch sites and take pictures.

PRIMARY ISSUES - HEAVY UNPREDICTABLE AIR TRAFFIC- were talking young jet jockeys making low runs thru the Mt`s. in uncontrolled air space.

We might have to use this site primarily for sledders just to keep current. I've done at least a hundred runs here on my motorcycle over the years and I've never seen anyone flying below the height of the mountains within HG or PG glide range down in the valley, so I'm sure if we don't get up we'll be safe. I think it would still be safe for ridge soaring too, as we probably wouldn't get more than 100-200 feet above the ridge and it would be pretty rare for a jet to do that close of a fly-by. That might have to be a condition of flying here, that we don't go more than 200 feet above the ridge during ridge soaring. XC, of course, would be pretty risky as just north of it is a major GA route according to sectional maps. XC should probably be discouraged until aircraft traffic patterns are more thoroughly researched.

No access to the terrain near the base since this is a National Park with protected Saguaro`s and other species.

As I said, there are established wildlife trails to about 80% of the two possible launches accessible from the parking lot at Gates Pass. I'm sure if we made an agreement with the city that we'd stay only on these established trails and direct routes between established trails, and only use these for flying access and not other recreation, they'd let it slide. And we'd only have to worry about this if we are denied access through Trails End Estates to the road-launch.

No launch area with out major terrain changes.

I disagree. There's a pretty good launch site here 32 deg 13'58" N 111 deg 06'55"W that wouldn't necessitate any terrain changes. It's a 4 to 1 facing WSW. There's another 4 to 1 facing W a little lower at 32 deg 13'50"N 111 deg 06'34" W. They would, however, need to be cleared at least 30 by 40 feet.

And these are only if we can't get access to the Trails End road that leads to the radio towers. If we could get access there, it would totally eliminate the need clear other launch sites and walk across the national park, although it would put the trails paralleling Gates Pass rd out of glide ratio considering a W wind. BUT, there is what looks like it could be a ranger station parking lot or something here 32 deg 14'17"N 111 deg 07'30" W that might be used as an LZ that's within a 4.5:1 glide. It's 105 by 65 feet, which probably makes it a little too small for HGs. And of course we'd have to get permission from whatever gov't agency operates it. THERE IS ALSO A SSW PORTION OF THE ROAD TO THIS SET OF BUILDINGS THAT IS FAIRLY STRAIGHT AND NEARLY 800 FEET LONG WHICH COULD SERVE AS A HG LZ! It's within a 5:1 glide of the road-launch site, so it is definitely reachable by HG and in light winds even PG! I'm sure this road is very infrequently used and would serve well as an LZ.

We would need to contact the residents on Trails End Road to see if they are interested in giving us access. The house on the summit only lasted 4 years before the wind storms tore it apart so it is gone- that was my contact.
The launch I used at Gates Pass is pretty low and dose not offer a good LZ the road is not always usable due to traffic and is not a viable LZ for permitt purposes.
I would be interested in meeting with you at the site if your so inclinded- this would help you understand the situation better. We could look at the launch and landing areas at that time and it might help me draw up a proposal for the Park Service and see if it will clear their reg`s.
I mention difficulties because I`ve been there -I`ve done it! I am interested in flying there even with theses issues. Any help in this matter is greatly appreciated- John and I can perhaps team up?

Eric

I'm happy to help however I can.

I'll be very happy to look at it with you, Eric. John, you're gonna be out of town this weekend, right? If not, why don't you check it out with us?

I'll be in town tomorrow afternoon (if I don't go flying at Mustang). I'll also be either in town or checking out Newman on Monday and/or Tuesday. Give me a call and we'll work something out.

520-289-7512.

Training this weekend-

Newman! The best shot at that place is towing- it`s not very hikable- too many rolling hills near the base very rough. The canal blockes access in some areas- If you find a good launch site that place could be sweet!

The towers at the summit were placed by chopper.
There is a tow road to the north that could be used to tow from- thats how it`s been flown in the past.

Eric

520-405-3814

I've found a few 'peak baggers' websites that describe the hike. They hike it from the east side, no trail. Doesn't sound like fun, but I'm sure it can be done. I'll scope out the top of it from my paramotor some time soon and see if I even wanna get my feet on the ground up there. The canal on the west side would act as a huge thermal trigger, I'm sure. From Google Earth it appears that it could be safely launched either NE, NW or SW but nothing close to due west because there's a huge outcropping due west of the towers.

I scoped out Tucson Mtn Park yesterday for some hike-up launches. I only found one that's feasible, and it's sketchy. Not a lot of room for error, and the end of the launch is a little rocky for smooth footwork. There is definitely another option lower, but it's so low that it wouldn't be worth it, you might as well just go to A mtn.

The drive-up launch looks like the best option. I've been looking all over the internet for a way to contact the developers of that community but I got nothin. I might call a realtor. Our best hope would be if someone knew someone who lived in Trails End or worked for one of those radio stations up there. Does anyone here know anyone? PLEASE tell me you do! There's a keypad-access gate with multiple security cameras. I could see the road from where I was hiking and it looked great to launch from. Definitely the safest terrain in the area for mechanical turbulence, and the highest to boot!

I took a look at that dirt road and what appeared to be a ranger station that I mentioned before. The gate was locked, but it belongs, if memory serves me correctly, to the Sonoran Arthropod Institute. I have no idea if those folks woud be amenable to us using their road or parking lot as an LZ, but the fact that their gate was locked when I was there on a weekday leads me to believe that it is not well-traveled. If the road and parking lot couldn't be used, an HG LZ pretty much wouldn't be feasible without mowing down some protected saguaros, which I'm sure isn't an option. If they could be used, a PG LZ wouldn't necessitate an ounce of vegetation clearing.